Isn’t it odd when one’s interests intersect?
Here, for example, is Ioan Gruffudd:
First, as the Regency-era Wilberforce in the film Amazing Grace…
Then as the Regency-era Horatio Hornblower:
Very Regency. Very appropriate for this blog.
Of course, when Ioan played Horatio Hornblower, he had a sidekick: Archie Kennedy. Hornblower was sort of young and sweet, and Archie was even more so.
Here’s Archie Kennedy, played by Jamie Bamber. (Doesn’t he look scared and noble, and very, very young?)
There. Still very Regency. Very appropriate for this blog.
This past Sunday, my interests intersected in an interesting manner!
I went to a science fiction media fan convention… And Jamie Bamber was there.
Jamie Bamber, you say? Our Archie, at a science fiction convention?
Why, yes, of course. He is no longer sweet little Archie. Jamie Bamber has been hitting the weight room, and he now plays the military hotshot Apollo, on the new Battlestar Galactica.
Here’s Apollo:
Yes, he’s definitely been working on those muscles. (Not that I noticed or anything.)
At the convention, he actually talked about Horatio Hornblower, too! He said that had been his first acting job ever. (See? This post is highly relevant to the Regency!)
I noticed one other link to the Regency at the convention… Doug Jones, an actor who most often performs underneath intricate masks and make-up (he played Pan in Pan’s Labyrinth, for example), was there, talking about his upcoming role as the Silver Surfer in the Fantastic Four sequel.
And The Fantastic Four, of course, stars Ioan Gruffudd as Reed Richards, a.k.a. Mr. Fantastic.
Ooh. Looks like maybe he’s been hitting the weight room too. (Not that I noticed.)
Now, for those of you who will think this whole post is highly juvenile, and beneath the dignity of this blog — not that I’m mentioning any names (Janet) — I’ll just say, it’s very Regency.
In fact, I’m being remarkably restrained. Regency men “stripped to advantage” — and it’s not like I put a picture of Jamie Bamber shirtless here, or anything.
Can’t think how that happened.
Oh, it must be blogger acting up again.
Yeah, that’s it. Blogger did it.
Not my fault.
I had nothing to do with it.
So… Who’d have pictured our little Archie, sweet sidekick Archie, even more sweet and vulnerable than sweet-little-Horatio-Hornblower Archie, all grown up and looking like that?
So, here are your questions for the day: (answer any or all):
1) Why do so many Regency writers also read and write science fiction? Why do science fiction conventions have Regency dance? What is the connection?
2) Who’s cuter, Jamie Bamber or Ioan Gruffudd? (And how do they compare with Clive Owen, Matthew Macfadyen, and Gerard Butler?)
All answers welcome!
Cara
Cara King, author of MY LADY GAMESTER, in which hunky Lord Stoke never takes off his shirt
Ahem. I didn’t think the post was low-brow, Cara. I thought it was very Regency-appropriate.
And while, I’m never the one to say, “I told you so,” I’m very glad you went to the con, especially since the result is that I get all this eye candy. In fact, you should go more often.
Let me answer question two first. Natch. I promise I won’t be greedy and have them all. I’ll settle simply for Ioan Gruffudd and Matthew Macfadyen, and Diane and I will arm-wrestle for Gerard Butler.
Question One: Um, I dunno?! But I’m sure you’ll enlighten me, Cara. But perhaps Todd would like to take a stab at it.
I would settle for Matthew Macfadyen myself
1) Why do so many Regency writers also read and write science fiction? Why do science fiction conventions have Regency dance? What is the connection?
An alternate world in which to escape??? I think that is the connection.
2) Who’s cuter, Jamie Bamber or Ioan Gruffudd? (And how do they compare with Clive Owen, Matthew Macfadyen, and Gerard Butler?)
Well, this one is sooooooo easy. Gerard Butler. (So get ready to arm wrestle, Keira!) But Jamie Bamber has matured rather well, I will admit.
Perhaps like Edyta from “Dancing with the Stars” I’ll wear a sparkly costume so Diane will be distracted while I wrestle her arm to the table.
In the meantime, you’ll find me at Curves, if’n you need to see me.
Darn that Blogger!
Anyway, re the Regency and science fiction. I’m with Diane: it’s the alternate world, the escapism. One can throw fantasy into the mix too. Lots of us are Tolkien fans too, for instance.
Now for the tough questions. I have to give a slight preference to Ioan over Jamie–though Jamie does strip to advantage I like Ioan’s face better. I’m into interesting faces, though not above appreciating other aspects of male beauty. 🙂
As for broader comparisons (Bean, Firth, anyone?) it’d just too difficult, like trying to rate gourmet chocolates. I have no objectivity, none at all!
As for the SFF/Regency connection… I suspect some of it is an interest in how societies work. In a Regency, you get a world with a set of strict rules, and then the author lets different characters loose in this world, and we see what happens. And in science fiction and fantasy, it’s often the same.
And I think the flip side is that readers of both are also very interested in character, in people. What’s universal in humanity? What isn’t? Both genres take worlds very different from ours, and show us how people in that world think differently (and how they think the same). They also give us a chance to think in that way for a while, and see how it feels!
Cara
Elena and Cara: That would be the case of any historical vis-a-vis sci-fi though. Is there anything about the Regency period per se that jives so well with sci-fi/fantasy?
Good question, Keira. Why Regency and Sci Fi?
I do not have the answer, but I do know it will take more than a sparkly outfit to keep me from winning our arm wrestling contest.
That would be the case of any historical vis-a-vis sci-fi though.
I’m not sure, Keira. I admit I don’t read all that many historicals, so I can’t say much about Western romance or Medievals or whatever, but in most of the Regency historicals I’ve read, society tends to be less important, less present, than it typically is in (traditional) Regencies.
Also, the convention wisdom is that readers & authors of (traditional) Regencies are more interested in the actual history, the details of the period, etc, than with others historicals (including Regency historicals.) I don’t say this is invariable, because of course it’s not, but it’s a general rule I’ve seen cited for many many years, and I believe there’s a lot of truth in it. (One always hears stories of Regency readers writing scolding letters to authors who they feel have made historical errors!)
Perhaps, though, it’s more that the Regency haut ton as we know it in Regencies is a very rigid society, with a million rules, both explicit and implicit (when you shop, when you ride in the Park, which Park you ride in, what you may wear to Almack’s, etc)….
Cara
I love, love, love Ioan Gruffudd! His Welsh accent is absolutely beautiful and that bone structure! Of course, Jamie Bamber was excellent as Archie.
And Gerard Butler . . . love him too! And Clive Owen. And Matthew MacFadyen as Mr. Darcy.
You’ve got good taste, Lady Jane! After all, why pick one of them when you can have them all? 🙂
Cara
I am sorry to enter this conversation so late. You see, I was off lifting vast amounts of weight at the gym. Not that I feel any sense of inferiority at all, after looking at all those actors. Heavens, no! It’s just that I was reminded that steady application is required for me to keep up my, er, manly physique.
And then it took me a long time to type this, because at this point I can only move one finger. And the ice pack has slipped onto the floor, but it’s too heavy for me to pick it back up. Ooh. What was I going to say?
I’ve loved sci fi and fantasy since I was a kid, and I’ve read Regencies for years now. And I think one element they have in common is world building. The world of Regency romances is based on historical fact, and the world of sci fi is based on speculation (usually about the future), but the fascination with intricate details and how they fit together is very similar. And a lot of fantasy is about exploring a different world.
One of the questions that was asked of Jamie Bamber at the con was what the difference was between acting in a sci fi show and a historical show, and his reply was: “They are exactly the same.”
Sorry, I’d love to say more, but I’ve got to jog ten miles tomorrow.
Todd-who-knows-that-that-which-does-not-kill-us-only-hurts-really-really-badly
I’ve always felt that sci-fi/fantasy readers are more drawn to medieval tales, rather than the Regency. The medieval world is just as intricate and rule driven, it’s further back in history so more prone to fantastic recreations, and earthy and macho enough to satisfy male readers.
Cara: Ah! The love of accurate research. You’ve heard me carp about it here. I know all of you Riskies agree. Now I hear that once a world is created, the SF folks are also just as liable to be fervent about the details of that world (or the landscape as the HistoryHoydens have put it).
Perhpas that’s the connection. Not the intricacy of the world, but rather the correct application of the details.
Sure they’re pretty but can they play Scrabble?
Sure they’re pretty but can they play Scrabble?
Janet, dear, with a guy that pretty, you don’t need to play Scrabble. 🙂
Cara
Perhaps that’s the connection. Not the intricacy of the world, but rather the correct application of the details.
Ah. Good point, Keira!
And you know, the violation of that law is what really bugs me about some movies and TV shows… They set up their own rules, and then break them. I hate that!
As for the SF/Regency connection… Though I admit I can only speculate (as I have) about where it’s come from, I do believe it exists… And more so than any medieval romance connection, however much sense that might make. (Maybe it’s because fantasy fans can get plenty of Medieval stuff in fantasy already?)
Anyway, I know a seller of used and collectible paperbacks who has assured me when he gets a dealer’s table at Worldcon, his best sales are of Georgette Heyer…
And I know for a fact they have Regency dance at Worldcon every year, because I’ve done it! (Though some have argued that that’s really just an accident — that one or two influential people in the SF world just happen to love Regency dance, and so the connection was made…)
And as for authors who’ve done both… I know I’m going to forget a bunch, but here are some I can remember:
ROSEMARY EDGHILL used to write Regencies for St Martin’s Press (very nice ones, too) and went on to write fantasy.
MADELEINE E. ROBINS wrote Regencies for Fawcett, and then went on to write her alternate history Regency mysteries (I count them as semi-fantasy, what with Charlotte being the Regent and all…)
JO BEVERLEY wrote at least one SF story (I’ve read it! It’s good!), which was a finalist in the L. Ron Hubbard Writers of the Future Contest (I was just a semi-finalist myself, and so I wasn’t in the collection). She also did a SF romance novella in a recent collection.
And in her dedication for A CIVIL CONTRACT, Lois McMaster Bujold talks about Heyer…
Oh, shoot, there are a bunch of other major authors who’ve done both, and they’re slipping my mind. (Heather would know! I should email Heather and ask.)
Cara
I’d say Matthew Macfayden & Jamie are neck & neck, but, having had a soft spot for Archie, I’d give the edge to Jamie Bamber.
Ioan is OK, but aging very badly. He already looks closer to 50 than 35.
He really does do well in regency garb though!
Bostoniangal wrote: Ioan is OK, but aging very badly.
Oh, poor Ioan! Maybe it’s all the stretching he had to do in Fantastic Four. Must be very aging on the skin. 🙂
I guess you and I can share Jamie. He’s enough man to go around.
Cara
Ah well, Regency writers and scifi people have style and class? 🙂
And I guess out of those two, I’ll go with Ioan Gruffudd is my personal favorite of those two. But sorry, when it comes to Regency related actors, I gotta go with Colin Firth, those other two have nothing on him. 🙂
Lois, who will arm wrestle all of you if GB shows up in the Phantom outfit 😉
Cara King said…
Oh, poor Ioan! Maybe it’s all the stretching he had to do in Fantastic Four. Must be very aging on the skin. 🙂
I guess you and I can share Jamie. He’s enough man to go around.
Yes…Jamie is worth sharing! 🙂
I don’t know if it’s the CA sun, or the stressful California lifestyle, but Ioan has lost his boyish look!
Keira wrote:
I’ve always felt that sci-fi/fantasy readers are more drawn to medieval tales, rather than the Regency. The medieval world is just as intricate and rule driven, it’s further back in history so more prone to fantastic recreations, and earthy and macho enough to satisfy male readers.
It’s true that a lot of fantasy is set in medieval-ish worlds–swords and sorcery and all that. But I think sci fi is more diverse. A lot of Golden Age SF is what I call “The 1950s in the Future”–they have rockets and nuclear power and robots, but the women all stay home and keep house (with atomic vacuum cleaners). But I’ve seen a lot of SF worlds based at least in part on different cultures and historical periods: Ancient Roman, Feudal Japanese, and yes, Regency.
Or maybe you mean that you think sci fi/fantasy readers read more medieval stuff when they’re not reading sci fi and/or fantasy? Dunno.
One thing I’ve noticed several times is sci fi books that seem inspired by the Horatio Hornblower novels. The David Feintuch “Hope” novels (though very, very dark); the David Weber “Honor Harrington” novels (same initials!); and parts of one series by Elizabeth Moon. Probably there are more than I know about.
On the other hand, I can’t remember ever encountering an interstellar version of Almacks…
Todd-who-has-to-run-and-switch-off-his-thermonuclear-tea-kettle
Definitely Jamie Bamber.
Definitely Jamie Bamber.
Tickled pink to have you here, Jenny!
And I guess Bostoniangal and I can share Jamie with you… If I get bored when he’s away, there’s always Jeremy Northam and Ioan and James Marsters and Nathan Fillion. 🙂
Cara
Oh, Cara!
I thought I was the only Nathan Fillion fan! Northam too…YUmmm.
You Do have excellent taste! 🙂
Now, a regency era film, with the three of them would be a definite must see.
They’d all look so dashing in costume!!
Ooh, I’d love to see Nathan Fillion in Regency clothes!
Don’t laugh, but I could definitely picture him playing the Scarlet Pimpernel. 🙂
Though he’d probably be cast in a role closer to those he’s most famous for — say, a character like Sharpe.
Cara
Todd wrote, “Or maybe you mean that you think sci fi/fantasy readers read more medieval stuff when they’re not reading sci fi and/or fantasy? Dunno.”
No, no. The other that you interpreted correctly.
I’ve read old sci-fi (Arthur C Clarke et al) and some really good Russian sci-fi. However, once the sci-fi and fantasy worlds started merging (to some extent), I stopped reading the whole genre. I want to either read about flying through a spaceship or read about sword-fighting, just not the two together.
(Cara: No, no. Don’t give up on me. Regencies are still my first love.)
Nathan Fillion? Where’s Susan Wilbanks? She would fight you tooth-n-nail for him.
Keira wrote:
I’ve read old sci-fi (Arthur C Clarke et al) and some really good Russian sci-fi. However, once the sci-fi and fantasy worlds started merging (to some extent), I stopped reading the whole genre. I want to either read about flying through a spaceship or read about sword-fighting, just not the two together.
Well, there’s still some very good sci fi being written, though fantasy has been growing for a long time. I like Lois McMaster Bujold a lot, and Iain M. Banks, to name two. (Though some of his stuff might seem a bit medlieval to you. 🙂
Todd-who-likes-all-57-varieties